Curse

hahman14 · Jul 12, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Ahh, the freeloader. What an interesting and idiotic creature it is. I just wanna stab the little suckers......sorry. Anyways, yes, I totally understand that there are times when people have Legit reasons to go AFK. Most of the time, assuming I have no problems with the person, I will suggest to the group that we wait a bit. I have run into many situations, when nature's call hits me and I have to leave. I always apologize, explain the situation, and move my character out of any possible accidental aggro'ing. Whether it's a drink or preparing a sandwich I always try my best to get back and catch up.

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Aniewiel · Jul 12, 2005, 01:11 PM // 13:11

What just astounds me is that this conversation is -still- going on 261 posts later.

But I do agree with Principa and others that we need to stop nitpicking the minute details of the conversation and focus on common decency.

-If you must go AFK for more than a few minutes, let your companions know if you can and then LOG OUT.

-If you know dinner is coming up, even with a vague knowledge, don't join a PUG. Simply grab henchies and get started. That way, once you're in a safe location and dinner is being served, you can complete your 12 course meal, taking as long as you wish and still come back to finish the mission.

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Nobody is disputing that it can occur, and as has been indicated over and over in this thread, just drop a line explaining the situation. There's always a chance you have to leave your computer; how you handle that, and the logical consequences of how you handle it, is what has been discussed here.

Let's quit the nitpicking over the exact details.

I'm not trying to nitpick, just answering a previous post which claims if you AFK you should quit. Also if you read a lot of the earlier posts, they talk about being considerate, the pre-requisites of which are planning toilet and food etc, which is entirely ridiculous since how can you plan these things if

a) You don't routine doesn't work like clockwork
b) You don't know how long a mission will last

The only issue should be when someone AFK's without any explanation AND remains for the whole mission. Sometimes this may even be for a legit reason and not free-loading. The fact that I wasn't expecting food and needing to go to the toilet is not being inconsiderate. I manage to this a lot, but it not malicious, its just the fact that I'm dis-organised. I'm actually a very considerate player in the game. And I dislike being slated for my inability to disorganise myself especially when this is due to my dyslexia.

Aniewiel · Jul 12, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Thanas, as logical as you seem to think your arguments are, they lack sequential thought:

-While restroom breaks are not "plannable" (for instance, I always go at 2pm), they are avoidable for the most part. One generally feels the urge gradually coming upon them and MOST OF US have a reasonable idea how long we can sit before we can hold it no longer.

-You are also missing the point that we have tried to beat you over the head wit....I mean the point we've been trying to make with you....that NO ONE begrudges you a restroom break! Get over that one, for cryin' out loud! EVERYONE has acknowledged that sometimes you gotta go (just like those annoying bladder control commercials say, "Gotta go gotta go gotta go gotta go..."). EVERYONE has indicated that a short "AFK bio-break" will suffice as reason for your -short- absence.

-Finding out how long a mission is going to last is simple. Use the SEARCH option here on this site, read the Prima guide, ask people if they've done this mission before and how long it might take....I could go on ad nauseum but I think those three suffice.

I find your obsession with organization interesting. Are you often berated IRL about your organizational skills (or lack of them)?

Ashley Twig · Jul 12, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I agree. However your post seems to suggest that you should leave at the end of a mission if you have to go AFK then since this is still free-loading.

Well if you want to put a name to it: Yes, it's freeloading.

But if you leave at the end of a mission, and the team if perfectly ok with it, the remaining xp's are a gift from them to you.

One should be thankful if you're on a team like that.

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting! I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot. A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate. As I have pointed out this is simply not true. And maybe yes you can find an approxiamate time for a mission, but this is only approxiamate. You will find some teams are slower and some are faster. For example I played with a team who took 3 hours to do the first few bits of FoW. From what I have gathered our team was slow compared to others who have played this. And what was that you said about nitpicking?

Ashley Twig · Jul 12, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate.

There are always people who don't agree with you. That's life.

I guess it actually depends on your team.
If you accidentaly end up on a team of rushers, they'll hate you for being slow.
If you're a rusher and end up on a team of slow-mo's they'll hate you for rushing.

So pick your team carefully, and discus their tactics before you head out with them.

And no matter what team you're on:
It's always polite to tell people for how long and why you're going to be afk.

And polite people always have the bonus that they're more apprechiated than impolite people.

Ninna · Jul 12, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting! I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot. A lot of the previous comments suggest that because of this I am inconsiderate.

they typical AFKer I have issues with,
go AFK over 15 minutes and say *nothing* of a warning

when they could have just pushed "X" to quit out

I think the most common issue people have talked about here (least in the beginning of the thread) was communication.
(which alot of players lack in GuildWars)

statements like "brb" really says nothing (gives no indication of how long) but most bad AFKers dont even say that

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

There are always people who don't agree with you. That's life.

True, I just expected more from people on these forums. As the vast majority of player on GW are good natured and and are not bigots in any way whatsoever.

MuKen · Jul 12, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I find the lack of empathy from people on these forums disgusting!

This doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion, I am sure many of the people you are debating with think you have a lack of courtesy that is disgusting, but refrain from saying so when it will add nothing of value to the debate.

Quote:

I am able to understand that perhaps some people are able to plan out their days step for step, but please see things from my PoV where I cannot.

Nobody asked that you do. People ask that you possess the ability to lay out maybe an hour or so of uninterrupted time, and that if you cannot you stay out of PUGs and stick with people who you know and are willing to wait for you, or use the henchmen. These arguments about how bathroom breaks are bound to happen on longer missions are pointless because nobody has argued against you on that, you just keep talking to yourself so you have something to argue about.

People want two things:

1) You are making some sort of effort to avoid conflicts when you play. Ie you use the bathroom beforehand if possible, and don't play when you're going to have to eat or pick someone up.

2) If you do run across a conflict, realize that you are inconveniencing the larger group and should be appropriately apologetic.

Nobody here demands you be perfect and always able to play uninterrupted, so stop arguing that. Really, stop. (I'm repeating this for emphasis since the point has been brought up many times by many people and you keep ignoring it) They just ask that to the degree it is possible you minimize your interruptions, and properly explain and apologize when they are unavoidable.

Things like meals are CLEARLY foreseeable and avoidable. Like that story about the dinner with vague time you brought up? Use the friggin henchmen in that case, that's what they're there for.

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I think the most common issue people have talked about here (least in the beginning of the thread) was communication.
(which alot of players lack in GuildWars)

statements like "brb" really says nothing (gives no indication of how long) but most bad AFKers dont even say that

True, this I believe is the essence of this post. People should communicate better.

Ashley Twig · Jul 12, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I read this once in a book about Murphy's laws:

"If people would listen more, they would talk less"

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

This doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion, I am sure many of the people you are debating with think you have a lack of courtesy that is disgusting, but refrain from saying so when it will add nothing of value to the debate.

No I'm just annoyed that some people do not actually listen in these forums, they make no attempt to progress an debate through considering somone elses point. If you read my posts you will find that I have accepted certain things people have said. If no one listens the debate just deteriorates into argument and becomes pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

Nobody asked that you do. People ask that you possess the ability to lay out maybe an hour or so of uninterrupted time, and that if you cannot you stay out of PUGs and stick with people who you know and are willing to wait for you, or use the henchmen. These arguments about how bathroom breaks are bound to happen on longer missions are pointless because nobody has argued against you on that, you just keep talking to yourself so you have something to argue about.

People want two things:

1) You are making some sort of effort to avoid conflicts when you play. Ie you use the bathroom beforehand if possible, and don't play when you're going to have to eat or pick someone up.

2) If you do run across a conflict, realize that you are inconveniencing the larger group and should be appropriately apologetic.

I am making a perfectly reasonable point. Thankyou! Its just contrary to the majority. This point is completely reasonable. A lot of the posts bring up the issue of being polite and what necessiatates politeness. I believe the only thing that is required is for someone to apologise and give explanation of why they cannot finish the game. Nothing more!

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

I read this once in a book about Murphy's laws:

"If people would listen more, they would talk less"

Right on!

At least some people understand the point of debate.

MuKen · Jul 12, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

No I'm just annoyed that some people do not actually listen in these forums, they make no attempt to progress an debate through considering somone elses point. If you read my posts you will find that I have accepted certain things people have said. If no one listens the debate just deteriorates into argument and becomes pointless.

Huh? This has nothing to do with what I said and you quoted. I pointed out that you stating your disgust with the people you are debating with does not help, and if you are so concerned with the argument deteriorating to pointlessness you should avoid such statements.

Quote:

I am making a perfectly reasonable point. Thankyou! Its just contrary to the majority. This point is completely reasonable. A lot of the posts bring up the issue of being polite and what necessiatates politeness. I believe the only thing that is required is for someone to apologise and give explanation of why they cannot finish the game. Nothing more!

Again, this does not respond to the quoted text above it. If you are not going to respond to what I say, why quote it? I really don't mind if you just ignore my posts (I don't expect everybody on either side to respond to everybody on the other), but there isn't much point to quoting me and then not responding to the things you quote.

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

The first quote agreed with the fact you said the point I made I had nothing to offer to the debate. I agreed with you! I was just attempting to justify myself and why I had made that point. The second quote mentions that I am arguing with myself and I countered that through what I said. I shan't answer you again because you obviously don't understand debate, just argument.

MuKen · Jul 12, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

No ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

The first quote agreed with the fact you said the point I made I had nothing to offer to the debate. I agreed with you!

You have a funny way of starting off your agreements.

Quote:

I was just attempting to justify myself and why I had made that point. The second quote mentions that I am arguing with myself and I countered that through what I said.

I wasn't arguing your point, nobody has. We are all in agreement that if you have an unavoidable conflict, you should just apologize, explain, and go take care of it. What we are debating is whether or not it is common courtesy to avoid PUGs when something like that is likely to come up.

Quote:

I shan't answer you again because you obviously don't understand debate, just argument.

Generally, if I feel this way about someone, I just stop responding, and don't make a big production out of it. IMO, the situation is the exact opposite, since you are the one making personal attacks (saying you are 'disgusted' with people, and things like 'you obviously don't understand debate'), which are not a part of debate.

Dalia · Jul 12, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Thanas.... Let me quote Desiderata to you: You are a child of the universe, no less than the moon and the stars, you have a right to be here.... (That was from memory, so excuse me if not 100 percent accurate.)

You don't need to start a thread, hover over it for two days, and respond to every post to validate your existence in the world or provide yourself with a sense of self-worth. As you mentioned in your FIRST post, GW is a game. There's so many things in life that are more important.

Pick a cause that's important to you and contribute to it. I think you'll find you'll feel better about yourself and about others if you do. Time, which you claim is so important to you, can be better served elsewhere.

Now, flame away, if you must, but I mean this sincerely. It's depressing to see folks trolling their lives away.

Dalia

Thanas · Jul 12, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalia

Thanas.... Let me quote Desiderata to you: You are a child of the universe, no less than the moon and the stars, you have a right to be here.... (That was from memory, so excuse me if not 100 percent accurate.)

You don't need to start a thread, hover over it for two days, and respond to every post to validate your existence in the world or provide yourself with a sense of self-worth. As you mentioned in your FIRST post, GW is a game. There's so many things in life that are more important.

Pick a cause that's important to you and contribute to it. I think you'll find you'll feel better about yourself and about others if you do. Time, which you claim is so important to you, can be better served elsewhere.

Now, flame away, if you must, but I mean this sincerely. It's depressing to see folks trolling their lives away.

Dalia

I'm at work and bored. My job is a joke and I have an internet. I like having debates, no matter what the subject matter. Just don't like pointless argument. But point taken.

DiAnna · Jul 12, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

LOL! Don't like pointless argument?

Gotta love it!

That said, I think a fast potty break during a rest/heal moment on a mission is more than fine with most folks. Asking 7 other people to cool their heels for a 15-20 minute dinner break is beyond self-indulgent, however. Would you invite me over to play pool, then leave me twiddling my thumbs in your game room while you and your family enjoyed their meal? If so, I definitely don't wanna party with you, my man!

And yes, I realize I have no life or I wouldn't have spent time reading this thread. But sometimes one simply cannot tear one's gaze from a trainwreck, no matter how bloody it might be!